Leadership network aims to help next generation tackle the national debt

Terry Gerton The Up to Us Leadership Network, part of the G. Peterson Foundation, works with college students on issues of fiscal policy and the national debt. No shortage of headlines around those two topics these days. What experience are you trying to create for students that’s different from a typical economics or public policy class?

Myra Sung Yeah, so the Up to Us Leadership Network is the nation’s leading vehicle for young Americans advocating for fiscal reform. The initiative supports the next generation of fiscal leaders, helping them thrive as they pursue leadership roles in jobs, public offices, or other influential positions in their lifetime. The network was established by the Peterson Foundation, which is a nonpartisan organization promoting federal fiscal sustainability. And our goal is really to create the next generation of leaders who are equipped to advocate for solutions to this problem. You know, one that has been stuck for literally decades for too long. And that’s our goal.

Terry Gerton So you’re talking there a little bit about the difference, I think, between academics and advocacy. How does that play out as you’re working with these students?

Myra Sung Yeah. So deepening the knowledge of young people in a college setting around debt and deficits and the numbers behind them are certainly important. And that’s a critical part of the work that we do. But deepening that knowledge of the national debt really only gets us a part of the way. People equipped to lead on this issue, that’s the gap the Up to Us leadership network is built to close. So leaders in our network, they are empowered to educate their peers on the impacts of debt. They are trained to have a voice in the national policy conversation. And we’re really supporting them to figure out how they can collectively move on an issue that’s been stuck. And, you know, they’re the leaders who are going to hopefully be able to walk into a room, build consensus with people with different views on this subject and the ways to solve it and actually get something done. People have known about how our debt is in the trillions for decades. We’ve worked with organizations like yours and others to check that box of awareness. What we really need now is a pipeline of future leaders who are gonna do something about it and that’s our focus. And it’s very different in that sense from a typical academic experience.

Terry Gerton You’re asking students then to move from the theory of national finance and legislation to actually building and defending budget proposals. What sort of light bulbs go on when you ask the students to actually start making trade-offs in a budget process?

Myra Sung Yeah, that’s a really great question. This is particularly relevant to one of our programs called the Fiscal Policy Challenge. And this is where students are given the actual power and responsibility to make their own informed choices about how they would stabilize the debt over a long-term period and really confront, I think, a lot of the difficult trade-offs that real world policymakers in Washington have to do. And so through the fiscal policy challenge, students form teams and they spend a full semester with the faculty advisor. And they are developing budget proposals looking at health care, revenue, changing demographics, social security, our defense budgets. And they’re trying to figure out what are the reform policy choices that they would advocate for. It’s really comparable to a 400 level economics course. It’s one aspect of our Leadership Network course. And what they’re doing is in the final stage, they present their proposals to a variety of experts in Washington. And what we found is that instead of being frustrated or feeling like this is an intractable solution that has no fix, they actually become really empowered because more often than not, they find ways to stabilize the debt and they feel like, wait a minute, this is something that can be done. And they know solutions are possible and they understand the federal budget is large and complex and they take that very seriously. But because deficits are so large, inevitably students consistently find that, you know, they have to look at both sides of the ledger. They have to look at revenue, they have to look at decrease in spending. They figure out you kind of have to make changes on both sides and when they run the numbers, that’s the conclusion they find and they find that it’s doable. And it actually becomes a proof point to them that this is something that can actually be tackled. So they feel very optimistic and positive coming out of what I think is a difficult, complicated and challenging exercise.

Terry Gerton Myra Sung is vice president of programs at the Peter G. Peterson Foundation. Myra, you’re talking there about the trade-offs in building a budget. Are you extending this to other fiscal challenges that the nation is facing in here and thinking about the challenge with the Social Security Trust Fund? It’s the same sort of thing. There are revenue challenges, there are policy challenges, there’s positions on every side of that issue. Do you have your students take up those kinds of policy questions as well?

Myra Sung We do, and every single aspect of our program, and there’s four different sub-programs, concern raising awareness around different aspects of the federal budget and how to tackle it. But one of the really exciting things about the Up to Us Leadership Network is beyond sort of the academics of the policy, we’re really teaching them a couple of other core critical skills. We’re teaching them how to raise awareness and talk about debt in ways that are authentic and compelling to their peers, so they really understand. What is debt, what is driving it, and why does it matter in their own lives? Students are facing very real everyday challenges around affordability, home ownership, education costs, health care, and they understand that something needs to be done. So they’re not only learning how to talk about this issue in real ways to their peers, they’re also learning then how to take that collective thinking and advocate to lawmakers and stakeholders. And then of course they are getting into the actual specifics of how to create policy platforms that they believe in and communicate that not only to Washington but to other experts in and around the country. I think the one aspect of the program that we’re really excited by in this new expansion is that the work doesn’t end on college campuses. We have created this new program through the leadership network called the Professional Pathways. And that’s something that we’re particularly excited about. And what we’re doing is we’re taking these young leaders who are already very civically engaged, steeped in fiscal policy issues, curious to learn more, and helping them to create a network where they can themselves collectively organize, mentor, mentor themselves, find internships, find positions on the Hill, find positions in their state offices, and really support each other as they learn about these essential leadership and advocacy skills. And that’s the part we’re really bringing to the network. So it’s not just about understanding the fundamental concepts of the growing debt problem and what’s driving it and all the different ways it can be solved. They definitely tackle that in pretty deep ways, but it’s what to do about it. How do you become a leader? How do become a leader in the halls of Congress? How do do you a leader as a staffer or as a policy shaper? And in other roles that they might pursue. And how do you not do it individually, but through a collective network that’s supporting you, not at the undergraduate level only, but as you continue to grow in your adult careers and pathways. And that’s what the program is really about.

Terry Gerton Myra, that is so fascinating because it is sometimes difficult to make the leap from undergraduate academic studies into practical employment, especially when you’re talking about these kinds of topics. But I’m also wondering, I mean, we’re in the middle of the midterm election cycle. All of these budgetary topics are highly politicized, very partisan. As your program participants get into the middle of these arguments? Do they find themselves drawn to the political arguments, or how does the fact-based approach here help them bridge political divisions?

Myra Sung Yes, I think one of the ways that we are doing this, and the students in our network really embrace this, is that they put themselves, and we encourage this, in situations where they’re confronted with lots of different opinions, right? Whether it’s with their fellow students, whether it’s their mentors, other policy experts in Washington and in the states where they reside, where there are going to be differences of opinion about how to tackle this issue, how to understand this issue. And what they are challenged to do and what they challenge themselves to do is to find points of consensus. So while we draw as a nonpartisan program, students with all different political persuasions, what our students overwhelmingly agree on, especially once they really study the facts, is that debt is an important issue that matters in their economic lives. And even in some recent polling we did, You know, 86% of young voters said that having a candidate with the plan to address the national debt is going to be a deciding factor in their choice in November. And young people are willing to consider voting even for a candidate from a different political party if they’re taking this issue seriously. So I think what really ties our students is, yes, they’re passionate about their own political opinions. They come with different solutions and ideas, but they just want to get something done. And they understand this has a real world impact. And so by practicing that skill of talking to each other, hearing those different opinions and finding a way through, they just get better at figuring out what are the points of alignment and how can they move this forward and do something.

Terry Gerton Myra, it sounds like an experience that lots of Americans could benefit from. So beyond what you’re teaching to college students, how much of these concepts could be extended to help more Americans, more citizens think through these kinds of trade-offs that are really involved in governing?

Myra Sung What we found through our program is that a lot of our students who are coming in are already naturally civically engaged and care about their communities. And some of them are coming in already as debt and fiscal experts. Some of them saying, hey, I don’t really know about this issue as well as I’d like to. I’d to learn more and then figure out if I can be engaged. And so what we’ve learned is that when people, and in our instance with this program, young people are willing to learn in a fact-based non-partisan way about what are the drivers of this problem? Why are we faced with rising debt? What are the potential ways we can fix it? They’re more open to conversations about solutions. And I think that’s one of the things we really pride ourselves in with the program and particularly with the work of the foundation. It’s really hard to engage in a conversation when you don’t have the information that helps guide your opinions and when you feel confident that, hey, this is something I understand and therefore it’s something I can solve. And so all of our students really undergo some basic fiscal education and we find, and I think all citizens could benefit from this, armed with that information, they really feel more empowered to form opinions about it, to not be intimidated by the numbers, to not intimidated by complexity. And then begin to say, okay, what are some ways we can address this in pragmatic and reasonable ways? And inevitably with all of our students and young people, that light bulb goes off. And it certainly goes off when they talk to their peers about the issue. And once it becomes understandable, it becomes solvable.

Terry Gerton Myra, if someone wants to get involved in this as a student or maybe they’re an employer looking for future government workers who have this kind of background, how do they find out more about the program?

Myra Sung Yes, they can go to our website called itsuptous.org to learn more about the program and to learn about all the different ways that they can engage as students, as teachers, as other faculty members to bring their students into the network. We’d be really excited to have them.