“I've always wanted to go to a state fair,” Shilpa tells co-host and fellow Test Kitchen editor Jesse Szewczyk. “I only know that there's a lot of fried food, and there's sometimes butter sculptures…. Oh my God, what a magical place this sounds like!”
In her latest BA Bake Club drop, Shilpa makes at least a part of this dream a reality in the form of her Glazed Apple Pie Fritters. They’re studded with tender chunks of apple, and spiced with nutmeg and cinnamon, and yes, deep fried.
Food journalist and podcaster Mark Bittman and his co-host and daughter Kate Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman stopped by to help coach Kate in the fine art of frying. “Frying dough is kind of benign, right?” assures Mark. “And once it's browned, it's done…so start with that [cue for beginners].” It’s as easy as apple…fritters.
We’d love to hear from you! Send your questions to BA Bake Club on Substack or send a voice memo or email to [email protected].
Jesse Szewczyk: I'm Jesse Szewczyk.
Shilpa Uskokovic: And I'm Shilpa Uskokovic.
JS: We're both senior test kitchen editors at Bon Appétit.
SU: And this is BA Bake Club.
JS: Bake Club is Bon Appétit's community of confident, curious bakers.
SU: We're creating the nerdiest and most wholesome corner of the baking internet.
JS: Every month we'll publish a recipe on bonappetit.com that introduces a baking concept that we think you should know.
SU: Then you'll bake, send us any questions that you have or pictures of your finished creations.
JS: And then we'll get together here on the podcast to talk about the recipe.
SU: Our October Bake Club recipe is for salt bread, and it's now live on bonappetit.com. We'll tell you more about it at the end of the episode.
JS: But today it is time for Shilpa's state fair fantasy, her glazed apple pie fritters.
SU: Which a week ago we found out may not even be a state fair thing, but we'll go with the premise.
JS: I just indulge this all the time. I'm like, yes, yes.
SU: For those of you who are listening and who may not know this fact, but I think you do, I wasn't born here. And when I moved to America, I think the most American thing was the idea of a state fair. And it has been my longtime dream to go to one. I haven't yet been to one. Inez, our colleague, teases me with all of the wonderful descriptions of the Wisconsin State Fair.
JS: That's a big one. Yep.
SU: And I've always wanted to go, and it's just... I only know that there's a lot of fried food at the state fair. And there's sometimes butter sculptures. Oh, my God, what a magical place this sounds like.
JS: I think we could very easily make your dream happen. Okay, next year we're going to New York.
SU: Oh, okay.
JS: Also, everything looked beautiful on the substack. All of the fritters looked beautiful.
SU: Oh, yes. Fritters were amazing. Yeah, everybody just knocked it out of the park with this one.
JS: Maybe they've all been to the state fair.
SU: I mean, we have been running Bake Club for almost two years, or more than two years now.
JS: Yeah, they're professionals now.
SU: Almost two years. Yeah, all of our Bake Clubs are pros now, Jesse. We got to step up our game.
JS: Okay, okay. So, the fritters. And before we get too far, can you walk us through the recipe? And for that we'll need what else but our jaunty Bake Club music. Yes, there it is. Shilpa, where do we start?
SU: I think Jesse, that this might be one of our easiest Bake Club recipes. It's certainly one of our quickest. To make the fritters, you cook a bunch of apples down with sugar and spice, and everything nice, I guess. And then separately you make a batter with ricotta, eggs, flour, and leavener. And then you combine both of these mixtures. You flop the cooled cooked apples into the ricotta batter and you fold them together, and you fry those things up. And then, to finish, we have a very simple 10X powdered sugar glaze that's spiked with a little bit of cinnamon.
JS: 10X. Okay, chef.
SU: Okay, chef. Put that on our T-shirt.
JS: 10X Shilpa. Do you want to tell the people what a 10X is?
SU: Yes. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 10X is just the kitchen term, I guess, for powdered sugar. And the reason it's called 10X is because it's 10 times finer than regular sugar. And it's also 20X, which I never used personally.
JS: Oh, wow.
SU: Yeah. But it's just, I don't know, kitchen speak for powdered sugar.
JS: Oui, chef.
SU: Oui, chef.
JS: Okay. So we talked about your inspiration at the state fair, but you've never been to a state fair.
SU: Mm-mm.
JS: So, how did A get to B here?
SU: It was just the concept. The idea that a state fair is filled with fried foods, like the deep-fried Mars bars and the deep-fried-
JS: Oreos.
SU: Yeah. Oreos and the deep-fried pickles.
JS: Deep fried mayonnaise.
SU: Oh, really?
JS: I've seen it. I've seen it.
SU: Oh, my God.
JS: Well, I saw it online.
SU: What's the texture?
JS: I have no idea. So, where did you start when developing the recipe? Did ricotta... Was it always there?
SU: Yes. The ricotta was always there because I've been pitching ricotta beignets.
JS: I've been around.
SU: And this was actually inspired, or rather stolen, from my husband, Miro, who when he was pastry chef at Gramercy, he made these ricotta beignets. And then he would often serve them with custard and a huckleberry or other sort of berry jam, and they were so good. And I've been trying to pitch ricotta beignets.
JS: No one was sold.
SU: No one was biting. So, then I morphed the pitch into yeast free cake donuts. I was like, "Let's do this." There was a lot of back and forth, I remember. And then I had to then pursue a seasonal angle. I said... Pull something out. And I was like, "Oh, what if we make them apple pie cake donuts?"
JS: And that's how you sold it.
SU: And that's how-
JS: And a sale was made.
SU: A sale was made, ladies and gentlemen. And that's how we ended up with our glazed apple pie.
JS: Thank you for your transparency here.
SU: See, sometimes it's just the way the fritter is fried.
JS: Okay. So, what is the difference between a fritter and a donut, and your previously mentioned cake donut?
SU: Cake donut.
JS: What are all these things?
SU: Okay. So, I think the unifying factor... I know you asked about the differences, but I think the unifying factor is obviously that-
JS: They're fried.
SU: ... they're all fried. Although some would argue you can have a baked donut, but I don't think it's a donut.
JS: Sure. And those little molds. Yeah.
SU: Yeah. Those are cute molds. For me, I think of a donut as being typically yeasted, whereas a cake donut is usually made with a chemical leavener such as baking soda and/or baking powder.
JS: Sure.
SU: And then a fritter, in my head, could be either. I think it could be yeasted or just leavened with a quick leavener. But the difference to me is that it isn't shaped in any way, it's almost dropped in free form. Whereas a cake donut is usually shaped in some way, usually with that little dispenser that makes the ring. So those, to me, are the three differences.
JS: Okay. So, your recipe. Okay. Step one, you cook down the apples. What's going on there?
SU: So, I almost always, when I bake with apples especially, or any fruit in general when it comes to baking, I do tend to pre-cook, because I think it does two things. One, it drives the excess moisture away and then-
JS: Yeah, they're quite wet.
SU: They're wet. Yeah, apples have a lot of water. And then by doing that you concentrate all of the flavors and it becomes more of whatever it is. I did this with my peach and blueberry filling for the peach and blueberry pie.
JS: I did it for the caramel apple monkey bread.
SU: Yes.
JS: Yes.
SU: Yes, and you cook down the cider too.
JS: Yes.
SU: Yeah. I think pre-cooking fruit is a great way to amp up the flavor without adding anything extra. And then, when you cook away the moisture, I think it acts better in your final product.
JS: And you cube your apples. I know there was discussion about maybe grating them. Okay, she looks disturbed.
SU: Yes, I think grating would release too much moisture.
JS: I think it kind of acts like a liquid at that point.
SU: Yes, exactly. And then I think it would also disintegrate into the batter.
JS: It's like gumminess.
SU: Yeah, that wouldn't work. And I think if you grate it... Yeah, you could. You could precook it, but it's going to take a long time to really get all of that moisture out, and then you're going to lose some of the texture. I wanted those chunks of fruit in the batter, so when you bite in you hit those juicy pockets of fruit.
JS: And how far do you cook them?
SU: The apples?
JS: Yeah.
SU: Part of it, of course, because you're dealing with fruit which has its own variabilities, always depends on your fruit. I tested it with Honeycrisp apples.
JS: Our favorite.
SU: Our favorite.
JS: Yes.
SU: I feel like we should tell everybody the Granny Smith experiment. I feel like Granny Smith has been-
JS: Granny Smith has... Well, it wasn't even an experiment at first. It was just Granny Smith was screwing us over.
SU: Yes.
JS: Over and over again.
SU: Yes, because Granny Smith is most recommended baking or cooking apple. And many times over, when Jesse and I were testing recipes, we would use Granny Smith and then we would end up with this sludge.
JS: Just plates, yeah.
SU: Of goop.
JS: Yeah, it's a lie.
SU: It is a lie. And then we discovered that an apple such as Honey Crisp is actually the best one for baking because it softens, but it still holds its texture without collapsing into an applesauce.
JS: I remember the tarte Tatin.
SU: Yes.
JS: It was illuminating, because I was using Granny Smith and they were wrinkly. And then I switched it to Honeycrisp and they were perfect little orbs. Yes.
SU: Yes, they were beautiful.
JS: Yes, that's crazy.
SU: That was a great discovery. Okay, let's go back to cooking the apples. How long should you cook it? You really have to cook it until most of the liquid is evaporated and that liquid in there is syrupy, because you cook it with all of the sugar in the recipe.
JS: Oh, okay.
SU: So you really want it to concentrate and cook down, and the sauce should be clinging to the apples.
JS: Sure.
SU: You can almost err on the side of overcooking than undercooking for this recipe, I would say.
JS: Because undercooking would make your batter too wet.
SU: Correct. Correct. And then they wouldn't fry well. They would absorb a lot of oil, they would lose their shape and become almost wispy.
JS: Sure. And then overcooking apples would just mean you have a more jammy apple bit.
SU: Correct.
JS: Okay. All right, fair. Okay, now the batter. So, what's going on here? What is the ricotta doing?
SU: Okay. The ricotta, I was actually very inspired by Eastern European, Central European baking traditions of adding fresh cheese to doughs and batters. You see it a lot in German and Austrian and Balkan baking. And I like ricotta because it adds moisture to the dough, which translates into a more moist fritter in this case. And it also adds this nice acidity, which just lifts all of the flavors up. It's like when you season food and you put a squeeze of lemon juice in the end-
JS: It just tastes better. Yeah.
SU: It just tastes better, exactly. So, ricotta brings that natural acidity. And also, the acidity tenderizes the batter and it reacts with any of your leaveners and creates a much more fluffy, tender product.
JS: And the batter, what is the consistency?
SU: What is the consistency of the batter? Okay. So, before you add the apples, the batter is actually very thick, and there will be larger streaks of flour. It will look a little bit dry and clumpy almost. So the batter is a little bit unusual. It is very thick. It can be dry and it can be clumpy.
JS: How thick?
SU: Damn. You really make me reach far back. Thicker than pancake batter.
JS: Okay. Okay.
SU: Yeah. And when you add the apples, like the cooked down apples and their syrup, at first it'll be very difficult to incorporate. The batter looks like it's almost breaking-
JS: Sure.
SU: ... because that moisture is trying to be added to this fat. And then you keep folding it in and everything comes together into what I would describe as a pancake-like batter.
JS: Sure. Okay. Now you have your batter.
SU: Yeah.
JS: I think it's time to address the elephant of the room, deep-frying. This is maybe the part where people have anxiety, hot oil is scary.
SU: It is.
JS: So, what is the key to a good deep-fried fritter and moving past the sphere?
SU: I actually think the secret to better deep-frying, or more streamlined, less anxious deep-frying, is to just use a smaller pot.
JS: So not like a Dutch oven?
SU: Yes.
JS: Sure.
SU: I almost never use a Dutch oven for frying. I just think it's-
JS: That's a lot of oil.
SU: Yeah, it's a lot of oil. And I think that's what... At least to me, that's what builds up my anxiety when I see a huge pot of oil, because I think things can go south very fast with such a large volume of oil because it can hold onto a lot of heat.
JS: Yeah, it stays hot for hours.
SU: Yes. So I prefer to use a smaller pot. I usually fry in a wok at home. But over here, I remember I was using a skillet. I was using a straight sided skillet, which is about nine to 10 inches. And then I filled it with maybe three-ish cups of oil, and I think that affords you a certain sense of control. And then the second point, I would say, is also get a pan with high enough sides. Make sure that the oil comes no more than halfway up the sides of the pan.
JS: Sure.
SU: Because when you add things into the oil, the hot oil is reacting with... The moisture in there evaporates, essentially, and things do bubble up.
JS: Yeah, it's a little violent at first.
SU: It is. And sometimes that can cause the oil to rise up in the pan. So allowing yourself enough margin will sort of relieve that anxiety.
JS: And you use a chopstick?
SU: I hate the deep-frying thermometer. I hate one. I don't know if I can say this though.
JS: Like the clip on one?
SU: Yes.
JS: Say it.
SU: So old-fashioned. I find them useless. I can never get them to clip on. They're always falling over because I never use-
JS: They're in the way.
SU: ... because I never use a Dutch oven. I suppose if you're using a Dutch oven [inaudible 00:13:10] I think it's nice and convenient to clip on. But I'm almost always frying in a wok, which has a curved side. Or I'm using a skillet, which has short side, so this thing never stays on. I just use a chopstick. People have been using that technique for centuries. Nothing has happened. We're good.
JS: Okay. But what does that mean?
SU: Okay. So, you can use a chopstick to test the temperature of your oil, and you do this by using a wooden chopstick, obviously, not a metal one. You take a wooden chopstick, which is not polished or sealed or lacquered in any way.
JS: Like a takeout one.
SU: Like a takeout one. And then when you feel your oil is hot enough, you plunge the tip of the chopstick into the oil, and then you watch the part that's submerged.
JS: The stick.
SU: Yeah. You watch the part of the chopstick that's submerged, and you should see, right where it meets the oil, you should see little bubbles forming. And that is an indication of how hot your oil is. If there are no bubbles or just very few small lazy bubbles, that means your oil is not hot enough. If there's a stream of bubbles that immediately rises and they lazily, blub, blub, blub, blub, that means your oil is kind of at the right temperature. And then if you have very rapid boiling and they're violently hissing against the side of the chopstick, that means your oil is a bit too hot.
JS: Interesting.
SU: Yeah.
JS: And this is just the moisture from the wood coming out, essentially?
SU: Yes, I think so. So that's the part about frying. And when you're ready to fry also, I think part of it is setting yourself up for the post-fry part.
JS: Because it goes so fast.
SU: Exactly. That's a good point, Jesse, it does go so fast. And I think having that setup really helps. So, I almost always use a wire rack that's set inside a rimmed baking sheet, like a half sheet tray. And I have something, either it's tongs or a spider, or a slotted spoon so I can fish out my fried food and move it to the wire rack. I never place it on paper towels.
JS: Never. Why?
SU: Because I think it just steams up, because-
JS: Get a little soggy.
SU: It gets soggy. You're putting this paper towel on a platter or a plate, and when the fried food makes contact, yes, the oil tends to get absorbed, but then it's steaming up beneath the surface because there's no air circulating. So I almost never put fried food on a plate with a paper towel.
JS: Sure, sure, sure. I've seen people put paper towels under the wire rack.
SU: Yeah.
JS: I don't really know what that's about.
SU: It makes for easier cleanup-
JS: Sure.
SU: ... but it's not sucking the oil out of that fried food because it's now suspended over the wire rack.
JS: It's just depleting Earth's resources.
SU: Yes.
JS: Okay, okay. So we're set up for frying.
SU: Yes.
JS: How do you scoop the batter in? How do you avoid sploshing hot oil everywhere? What is your technique?
SU: I know it's scary to get your hand close to the pot of oil, but actually the closer you can possibly get to the pan and the surface of the oil, the less dangerous it is. If you plop your, in this case, the fritters from up high, let's say chest height into the oil, that's going to fall and splash. Think of somebody diving into a pool, it's going to splash oil on you. Whereas, if you think of instead of a, I don't know, like a hippo entering the water. And you just gently glide the fritter into the oil, it's less likely to splash and splatter. So, I use an ice cream scoop to portion the batter, because I think that leads to consistent fritters and they all fry evenly. I've also made it with measuring cup, like a quarter or one third measuring cup, and it's worked perfectly fine. But I like the scoop because the spring-loaded action lets you drop the batter in quicker.
JS: Sure.
SU: And then I hold the batter as close to the surface of the oil as I feel comfortable and I just let it go gently.
JS: And what about overloading the pan? I know this is a big thing people preach about frying is don't overload the fryer.
SU: Yes. I think that's a valid concern. I think it's overloading or not is a matter of how big your pan is, obviously. The larger your pan and the more oil you have, the more you can fit in there. I would say think about deep-frying the same way as you would when you're sauteing something. You're looking for something to get color. You're looking to give these things enough space to float around, be surrounded with the oil and have the moisture evaporate. Same as you would in a skillet when you're sauteing chicken breast, for instance. You don't want to crowd things to the point where they don't have space to move and there's too much steam builds up. I would say have the pan about three-quarters full. That's a good gauge.
JS: Sure. Okay. So you have your fritters frying.
SU: Yes.
JS: How do you know when they're done?
SU: This one, these fritters in general, because they have a lot of sugar. They have the sugar from the apples, they have the sugar from the syrup, so they will brown quite rapidly.
JS: And they're quite dark.
SU: They are quite dark. And in shaping the fritters, I also found it very helpful to... After I put the oil, I found it very helpful to go in with the back of the scoop that I use, for instance, and just squish the batter down a little bit because then that flattens the fritter.
JS: Sure, sure, sure.
SU: And it helps things cook a bit more evenly.
JS: Sure.
SU: Think of it like when you're grilling a burger, and you know how when you grill or cook the burger and the center tends to rise?
JS: Yeah, you can dimple it kind of.
SU: Yes. And then to prevent that you dimple the middle.
JS: Sure.
SU: So think of that as the same way. By pressing down on the center of the fritter, you even everything out and things fry quicker and more evenly. This one, I would say push it a little past golden brown to a deep golden. And this rule applies, what I'm about to say next applies to anything that you're frying. I always use the bubbles around the fried food as an indication to know when to take things out. Because the more bubbles there are around the food that's in the oil, the more moisture there is. And when you're frying, you're really trying to drive away that surface moisture. And when the bubbles start to slow down or become really lazy, that's when you know that enough moisture has been driven off of the surface of whatever you dropped in to be crispy.
JS: Sure, sure, sure.
SU: So when there's less bubbles, pull that thing out.
JS: Okay.
SU: Yeah.
JS: And then the dreaded question, what do you do with the oil? When you're done, can I reuse it?
SU: This one you can. I would wait for it to cool, and then you strain it. I often just put a fine mesh strainer over a large mouth mason jar, and then I pour the oil in. I get rid of whatever's in the sieve, little bits and bobs and apple pieces sometimes. And then you can reuse the oil once, for sure. You might have to top it off with fresh oil, and then after that I would get rid of it. Whatever you do, don't put oil down your sink or in the toilet.
JS: Or don't put cold water in hot oil.
SU: That's true. Don't do that. The best way to dispose cold oil is to put it in something else, like a clean used milk jug, for instance, or a bottle.
JS: Sure. Or it's original container.
SU: Yes, or it's original container. And then seal it tightly and put it in the trash. Never pour oil down your sink.
JS: So, last step, glazing.
SU: Yep.
JS: So, do you glaze them when they're hot, when they're warm, when they're room temp?
SU: You really can glaze the fritters at any temperature, and they will each give you different results. I personally like glazing the fritters when they're still a bit warm, because when you dip... And I make the glaze a bit thick. So when you dip those warm fritters in that thicker glaze, it runs off. It shears off of it and leaves it with a really nice, glossy, even coat.
JS: It's like a shellac.
SU: Yes, it's like a shellac. But I would prefer, if the fritter is cool, I do a thinner glaze. And if the fritter is warm to hot, I do a thicker glaze.
JS: All right. All right. And then, when do you eat them, right away when they're piping hot? And I'll ask whatever and ask, do they freeze well? I'm just [inaudible 00:21:01].
SU: No, the fritters do not freeze well. Maybe. Maybe unglazed they would actually.
JS: Actually, they might.
SU: Yeah.
JS: Yeah.
SU: They might freeze well. Definitely they won't freeze if they're glazed, they won't freeze well.
JS: Be a little wet. Yeah.
SU: They'll be wet and the sugar will be gross when it thaws out. The glaze on top, I mean. But you could freeze the fried fritters.
JS: Probably.
SU: Air fry them back to life.
JS: Oh, wow.
SU: Yeah.
JS: With the air fryer.
SU: Well, I did do a few recipes for the air fryer. Justice for the air fryer.
JS: I do like an air fryer, I'll be honest.
SU: These are best eaten when they're warm. There's nothing like a freshly fried fritter.
JS: Yeah, no, I agree. You got to eat when it's hot.
SU: Yeah.
JS: Yeah, you have to.
SU: Just let the glaze set just enough so when you bite in, it crackles just the faintest bit.
JS: Like a munchkin.
SU: A munchkin.
JS: Have you ever had one of those?
SU: Indeed, I have. We're taking a quick break.
JS: And when we get back, we'll answer some listener questions all about Shilpa's apple fritters.
SU: Welcome back to BA Bake Club.
JS: Shilpa, are you ready for some listener questions?
SU: Si.
JS: Okay. We have a question about the dough from Rachel. Rachel says, "I'm excited to join this month's BA Bake Club. I made the apple pie fritters this morning and they were delicious. Some swaps and additions I made. I used sweet tango apples." I've never heard of those. I don't know why Shilpa's crying over here.
SU: Why did you say it?
JS: Did I say it weird?
SU: No, you said it in the most elegant way possible.
JS: "Which are in season here in Minnesota. And homemade ricotta cheese." Oh, wow. Very thick consistency. "After I added the syrup and apples, my batter was soupy. I knew it wouldn't hold if I tried to scoop it. I ended up adding 50 grams of flour and it was perfect. Wonder if it would be helpful to add a description of desired final batter consistency and how to modify if needed."
SU: That's a great question from Rachel, and I really think that's a very Bake Club solution that Rachel-
JS: It was the grams for me.
SU: Yeah, yeah. It was the grams that really gave away-
JS: And the homemade ricotta.
SU: And the homemade ricotta.
JS: And the sweet tango apples. Okay, Rachel.
SU: Rachel, you are-
JS: Okay, chef.
SU: Yes, you have been crowned our chef for the episode. Rachel's question is actually very good. And you're right, having a description for the batter is helpful. And I would say after the apples are added, you're looking for slightly thicker than pancake batter consistency. Because the reason her dough was soupy after she added the syrup and the apples to me indicates it wasn't cooked down enough. So, Rachel, next time you make it, just cook it a bit longer so the syrup is really thick and syrupy, and then let it cool a little bit before you add it to the batter. And that should do.
Because by adding more flour, sure, I think that's a good thing that you did that when you needed to in a pinch to make it work, but then it upsets the ratio of the leaveners and your fritter could be slightly more tough than intended. So, the best thing is to nip it in the bud in the earlier stage, which is when you cook the apples.
JS: And Rachel added two photos and they look beautiful.
SU: They look stunning.
JS: That glaze work.
SU: Yeah.
JS: Chef, come on now.
SU: This is a shellac.
JS: Yeah, this is a shellac.
SU: Yeah.
JS: This is beautiful.
SU: This is like French lacquer shine.
JS: Okay. Okay, Rachel.
SU: Beautiful.
JS: Okay, another question about the dough. This is from CP. They write, "The good news is that these are incredibly delicious. They have the perfect balance of sweetness and fall spices. The bad news is that on my second batch the structural integrity of my dough was in complete shambles, resulting in what my husband referred to as boneless fritters."
SU: Yeah, that's crazy.
JS: LOL, period. Perhaps a bit...
SU: Can I see the picture?
JS: "Perhaps a bit more flour was needed or that some more guidance about the ideal dough texture. I also think I needed to wait a bit longer for my oil to come back up to temp. Would love any other tips on how to troubleshoot this for the next time. All in all, this was a new challenge that was relatively quick and easy, and I ended up with 4.5 really good donuts. If I had any more than that, my husband and I would probably have made ourselves sick eating the whole batch."
SU: Well, it seems like a perfect mistake, in that case. I think this is a great question, and CP has included a picture of the fritters. They do indeed look a bit... They look very lacy, and that to me is a dead giveaway that the batter was probably a bit thin.
JS: Yeah, I see what you mean.
SU: Yeah. They look almost like a tempura.
JS: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are tempura apples. Shilpa's dying this episode.
SU: Tempura apple fritters, that's exactly what these are.
JS: Okay, CP. They look like a Resident Evil horror game or something.
SU: They're gnarly. The lack of glaze is absolutely sending me. Okay, here's the salt. The salt is the same as what we prescribed for Rachel. The dough should be pancake-like, and then cook the apples in their syrup a lot longer and make them thick and clingy. And I think you'll be on your way to getting more than 4.5 perfect fritters.
JS: For better or worse.
SU: Yes.
JS: Okay.
SU: Here's the positive thing about this. The size of the apples in your fritters, CP, are absolutely phenomenal.
JS: Yeah, the knife work is beautiful.
SU: It is. It is. Oh, my God.
JS: Okay, great. We're moving on.
SU: Yes.
JS: Okay. We have a question about frying from Christina. "These are fantastic. This was my introduction to frying, and it was a wonderful recipe to try it out. They are so delicious for how simple they were. I don't know if there was an issue with my technique or if this is just how making fritters goes, but I lost a lot of apple chunks to the frying and dipping process. I ended up tossing the pieces in the remaining glaze and they're wonderful on their own, but is there something I can do next time, and there will be next time, to keep the apples in the fritters?" And there are some photos here.
SU: Christina has sent us a series of pictures.
JS: I see the rogue apple pieces.
SU: Yes. I love Christina glazed them.
JS: Glazed little apple bits of [inaudible 00:27:22] that she glazed.
SU: She created a whole new dessert.
JS: Glazed apples.
SU: Glazed apples.
JS: Glazed cooked apples-
SU: Glazed fried apples.
JS: ... entree.
SU: That's also giving chef behavior.
JS: Yeah.
SU: Okay. Here's the thing. Christina, this also happened to me, and I realized it all depends on the size of the apple pieces. If the chunks of apples are a bit bigger than intended, then they tend to escape. And it happened to me during my video when I was frying, of course. It's only when you make a video when everything could possibly go wrong happens. So that's when I learned that the apples have to be smaller rather than larger, so that they incorporate nicely. What?
JS: I forget the word escape.
SU: It's been a tough few weeks. Everything is tickling us.
JS: We just got done with Thanksgiving. Okay?
SU: Yeah, that's true. Yes. To prevent your escapee apples, keep them smaller.
JS: There you go. Okay, now we have a question about glazing, and this is from Nico. "I made the apple fritters last night, and they turned out so good. They were easier to make than I expected. I didn't have a deep-fry thermometer, so I'm not sure what my oil temperature was, but that didn't seem to be a problem. After frying them, I was a little nervous about picking them up to dip in the glaze, so I just spooned the glaze on top of the fritters instead. They might have looked a bit prettier if I had dipped them, but then again, I'm not sure if it would have really made a difference. Is there a reason to dip them in the glaze versus spooning the glaze on top? Is it just a less messy process? I put my fritters on a piece of parchment paper before spooning the glaze over them so that the excess glaze dripped onto the parchment paper. Then, later on, I scraped up the cooled bits of glaze from the paper and poured it into a bowl to eat like candy." Why is everyone so unhinged this time?
SU: Yeah, the fritters have brought something out in our bake clubbers.
JS: Nico's just spooning glaze.
SU: And eating it out of the bowl like candy.
JS: You know what? Yes. Yes.
SU: Listen, there are a lot of good things that Nico has done. The fact that he-
JS: The fritters look beautiful.
SU: They look stunning.
JS: Yeah, these are beautiful.
SU: They're beautiful fritters, really nice apple incorporation. It looks like they were spooned on while the fritters were still warm, so you can see that nice glassy coat of the glaze. And also, I love that Nico didn't have a deep-fry thermometer, but he just did it anyway, and he didn't have a problem.
JS: There you go.
SU: See, that's the kind of spirit we need. Nico, to answer your question, no, there is absolutely no difference between dipping or spooning the glaze on top. I only like the dip because I think it gives it a more even coverage and it's a bit quicker, but certainly spoon the glaze over. There's no right or wrong answer, Nico. I think what you did is great. Maybe next time I would put the fritters on a rack maybe rather than on a parchment directly.
JS: But then you can't eat the glaze. Well, no, I guess you can kind of scrape it up. Yeah.
SU: Yeah, but you know what?
JS: Pros and cons.
SU: Pros and cons. Yeah, pros and cons. I think I would put the fritters on a wire rack just so that the glaze drips off more evenly. But really, you can't go wrong, spoon or dip.
JS: Okay. Now, Kaylee, on Substack, has a twist when it comes to toppings. And she writes, "So good and so fun to make. I top with some flaky sea salt and orange zest for a little punch at the end, and I'd highly recommend."
SU: Wow. We have a lot of "Yes, chef" moments on this.
JS: Yes.
SU: Kaylee.
JS: These fritters, I don't know what you did. You unleashed these people.
SU: Your fritters look lovely. I see the bits of zest on them, that's such a fun idea.
JS: It's very Italian.
SU: Yeah.
JS: Yes, feels very Italian to me.
SU: I do love that. And that's also great. I hope everyone who is reading this or hearing this feels empowered to do the same. A little bit of zest on top could be fun.
JS: Yeah.
SU: And Jesse, I think additional spices. I know I call for just cinnamon. I beg your pardon, but a cardamom would be great.
JS: Like a five spice even.
SU: Oh, that's fun.
JS: Yes.
SU: You could also do this with pears instead of apples. I think that would be fun.
JS: Oh, wow. That would be good.
SU: Yeah. Pears and ricotta go really well together, actually. And then I would do the lemon zest in the batter. That's so fun.
JS: Okay, Kaylee, take my job. Okay, Shilpa. And finally, as our new tradition stands, we are going to dub a baker of the month who wins nothing but the shout-out. Who is our fritter baker of the month?
SU: I think I'm going to give this one to Nico.
JS: Yes.
SU: Yes. I really like that Nico went for it, fried the fritters, glazed these damn things, ate the glaze like candy. It's just the right level of being unhinged and involved in Bake Club that just speaks-
JS: And enjoying yourself.
SU: Yeah. Yeah. Nothing is too serious. Life is not so deep. Go for it. Try something fun. And it came out, it was tasty, it was delicious. And I love that.
JS: And it looked beautiful.
SU: It looks stunning. We are going to take another break.
JS: And when we get back, we are going to introduce you to two bakers that we think you should know.
SU: Welcome back to BA Bake Club.
JS: So, it's time to meet a baker we think you should know. Or, actually, two this month. And today we have a very special treat. We have food journalist Mark Bittman, and his daughter and co-host from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman, Kate Bittman.
SU: Wow. We're so lucky.
JS: We are so excited.
SU: Mark is a former New York Times columnist and author of 30 cookbooks. And Kate is running the editorial direction for The Bittman Project. And she is a part of the extended BA family because her husband, Nick, is one of our colleagues who we adore. Hi, Mark and Kate.
Mark Bittman: Greetings, you two.
Kate Bittman: Hi, friends.
SU: Yes, we haven't ever spoken to each other before.
JS: This is our first time ever speaking.
MB: That's a lie.
SU: Mark, I have a story for you, saving for the segment.
MB: Great.
SU: When I first started teaching myself to cook, I actually found a chocolate pudding from your book, and that was one of the first things I cooked in my family.
MB: Cornstarch or-
SU: With cornstarch.
MB: Yeah.
SU: Because that was the first recipe that I saw for a pudding that didn't use eggs. And I said, "Wow, okay, I love this." And I made it and I loved it so much, and it's still in my notebook. I need to find my recipe notebook from when I was a kid. I have it at home, actually. I'm going to take a screenshot and send it to you. I'm going to do that bit.
MB: I'd love to see that. Isn't it? When I started cooking and I discovered that you could make custards with cornstarch instead of eggs, I just though, God, this is the most amazing thing. But it's not terrible, cornstarch custard. It's actually good stuff.
JS: Don't get Shilpa started on starch.
SU: Oh, my God, yes.
JS: She's number one fan.
SU: This is true. This is true. No, I loved it. It became a part of our family's repertoire for dessert a lot when I was a kid. So, thank you. Know that you were a part of my life many, many years before this conversation.
MB: Now I want to make some this weekend. Yeah.
SU: Okay. Let's talk about baking. Mark, where did your love of baking come from? Do you like baking? Can you say you love baking more than cooking? Where do you stand?
MB: Well, the thing is that cooking is like water to me. It's just there all the time. I cook constantly. And there's no way that I would say that I bake constantly. I've spent many years baking bread. And there have been many, many years when I was obsessed with baking bread. But my grandmother's a really good baker. I'm sure you guys know this, but to me it was always very exotic. She made this cream cheese butter dough that she would wrap around rugula, and these things she called chocolates wee back. Which were you'd roll out this cream cheese butter dough and spread it with a mixture of Hershey's cocoa powder, milk and sugar, just both chocolate paste and then roll that up like a jelly roll and bake that. It's really good. It's the only recipe I've never published. It's just kind of funny.
JS: And Kate, do you have any favorite memories of baking with your dad?
KB: Oh, my gosh. I'm just going to call you out.
MB: Yeah, call me out.
KB: He doesn't like to bake that much. He really doesn't. He's such a cook. And I think he's such a flexible cook that I do think that the exacting nature of baking is not as appealing to him. That being said, he did make the cookies that my great-grandmother made a lot, or a fair amount, and they're amazing. And we call them Mama's Cookies. And they're so good. Sometimes he'll make a cake, and it's always very good, but he's very critical of it in a way that he's not critical of his cooking. So, I cooked with him growing up, but not baking as much. I love to bake, but I have a stupid rental apartment stove and it really freaks me out because I think I need to get one of those chef alarms, or something like that, so that I can know what temperature of my oven. How do you guys handle that?
SU: Okay. My dirty secret is that I don't give a damn about the oven temperature. In the sense-
MB: That's so great. I love that.
KB: Tell me more. Yeah.
JS: I actually have some thoughts too.
SU: Okay.
JS: Great.
SU: I just turned the oven on and I trust it to do its job. I have never put an oven thermometer in any oven that I've ever owned in my whole life. And I'm just like, yeah, la-la, it'll be fine.
JS: I think oven thermometers also are a trap because people are like, why is it 280? I'm like, because it's cycling.
SU: Yes.
JS: And then people freak out and they actually make it worse.
SU: Yes.
JS: Yes.
SU: We had an instance in the-
KB: What's cycling, Jesse? What does that mean?
JS: Cycling is like, so if your oven's at 350, it's not actually supposed to be at 350 the whole time. It goes through these waves, the average of the waves.
MB: Just like your air conditioner, your heater or anything else.
JS: Exactly.
MB: It's called swing.
JS: So people freak out and they're like, okay, crank it up 30 degrees higher. I'm like, no.
KB: Oh, yeah.
JS: Yes.
KB: Okay.
SU: Yeah, you just got to wing it.
JS: Live life.
SU: Yeah, live life. Bake a cake, and if it burns, turn your oven down the next time. And if it doesn't bake-
KB: I will never let it burn. Never. If anything, [inaudible 00:37:37] I want a nice underdone cake. I'm not going to-
JS: She wants that pale.
MB: Right, but these guys are-
KB: I do.
MB: It doesn't count for them unless they make it five times, so they want to burn it the first time.
SU: Yeah, kind of.
JS: [foreign language 00:37:49].
SU: [foreign language 00:37:50]. Our favorite word here. And I think I want to move on to asking you guys about podcasts. What has it been like working on the project together?
KB: Ooh, dad, you go.
MB: It's been what, five years?
KB: Yes. That's crazy. 2021.
MB: These guys came to us 10 years ago and said we should do a podcast. It was many years in the making, but we finally started doing it. For me, it's been really interesting because Kate's taken charge and I've gotten to watch her grow in a whole different way. And, I don't know, it also feels like an extension of... I was a journalist for a long time and I don't really do that anymore. Because for years I just traveled around and talked to people about cooking, and then I wrote stories about that, and I don't do that anymore. And it's obviously much more relaxed, I get to talk to people about what they do and I don't have to write anything down, which is really like a vacation.
JS: And Kate, how is it working with your dad?
KB: He's one of my best friends. Yeah, he's the best. We've been working together full-time now for six years, because we started before the podcast started. And I was working in corporate PR for a long time and I got tired of it, but we ended up working together.
MB: And told me that I needed to hire her.
KB: Your agent called me and said, "Can you help me wrangle Mark a little bit?" And I was like, "Yeah, I can do that. I've been doing it my whole life." What I think about often is that I tend to soften his edges a little bit. Not that he's anything but the sweetest person alive. And I, because he's older and wiser, learn a lot from him. It's interesting. It's an interesting dynamic. Sometimes I feel like we're like Howard Stern and Robin.
SU: I know we just taped an episode with you.
KB: You did? Shocker.
SU: What has it been like talking to developers like us? But I know you guys have also had a varied cast of guests from journalists to politicians to celebrities, all of these different personalities for the show. How does that feel? Are there some common threads that you've found?
KB: You know what the common thread I find is that everyone is embarrassed to tell you what they had for dinner night before.
MB: Or pretends to be, but it's true.
JS: It's such a hard question.
KB: Everyone is like, "Oh, no."
MB: Are we sure that everybody... Either no one listens to our podcast ever, or they turn it off before it ends, or they're all pretending that they don't know they're going to get asked what they had for dinner last night. Because we do ask everyone. And everybody goes like, "Oh, wow, I hadn't thought about it." Well, not everybody. Some people you can tell have been prompted by their PR agent, or whatever. They're like-
KB: Well, and some people are like, "Okay, I listened to the podcast. I was waiting for this. I came prepared." And you're like, "Okay, great." So you planned your dinner around?
JS: Yeah.
SU: Oh, yeah, sure.
KB: Yeah. We've had a couple people plan their dinner around it so that they could have a good answer.
SU: Wow.
KB: The best answers are the ones from people who don't know what's happening. So, actually, I'm sorry, Jesse's answer is the best answer.
MB: Yeah, Jesse's answer was really good.
JS: I thought it was just like dog food premium.
SU: It's a good answer.
MB: You're going to have to listen to our podcast to find out what it was.
SU: That's true. It's a good one though. Well, Mark, I lack your conversational skills, unfortunately, so I'm going to have to make a very, very brief and abrupt jump.
JS: Time for fritters.
KB: I totally disagree. And we have to do it every week when we do what's for dinner last night. It's always an awkward jump.
SU: Okay. On that note, it's time to talk about fritters, the reason for the show. So, this month on Bake Club we are talking about glazed apple pie fritters. And we are curious, we want to know from both of you, do you have a preference when it comes to members of the donut family? Are you a fritter person or a yeasted donut person, or a cake donut person?
MB: I like plain cake donuts from Dunkin' Donuts circa 1973. I mean [inaudible 00:42:15]-
SU: They were probably good then.
MB: I was just thinking about donuts as I never ever eat donuts, but I do occasionally make beignets. So, I guess then it's beignets, fried hot, served, like you burn your tongue kind of thing. I really like that.
KB: I love donuts so much. There have been many birthdays of mine where I have donuts instead of cake.
JS: I like that. I like it.
KB: I would like to make these fritters, but I have never deep-fried anything. And I'm [inaudible 00:42:50]-
JS: Really?
SU: What?
KB: Yep.
SU: Oh, my God.
KB: Dark, dirty secret.
SU: Wait, why? Tell us why.
KB: The mess. I know we all know Nick. He would be like, "Oh, God. Oh, God," if I deep-fried something.
SU: Got it, got it.
KB: The air purifier is really loud and it goes on when I cook, and he would just... It would be hilarious. I would have to record it for you. But, no, I don't know. I think at this point it's just a mental block.
SU: Mark, actually what I do want to ask, if you didn't know Kate, and Kate came onto your podcast and she said, "I've never fried anything before in my whole entire life," what tips would you give her?
MB: When she said that I was kind of surprised, I have to say. Because I really like frying, and it was a very... To go back to the 1970, the next year I lived alone and I cooked obsessively. That's when I started teaching myself how to cook. Don't ask me why, but I just started doing it. And one of the first things I made was French fries, but for real, from scratch. And-
SU: What?
JS: That's impressive.
SU: That is such an impressive thing.
MB: Because my mother, who didn't cook anything well, made incredibly good French fries, for some reason. Impossible to understand. So many things are impossible to understand. But I think if you're going to fry, if you're afraid of frying, then beignets or fritters are the first thing you should fry because they don't spatter much. It's really hard to get them wrong because they cook through pretty quickly, and you're not worried about... It's not like fried chicken where it's like, "Oh, my God, I took it out and the bone is still bloody," or whatever. Or like fried squid where you know you're going to get burned because it's going to spatter into your face no matter what you do. But frying dough is kind of benign, right? And once it's browned, it's done. That's almost infallible unless you're making a giant fritter. It's kind of that works. So, that's what I would say, start with that. Make beignets, make Zeppole.
SU: Oh.
KB: I'm going to make this apple fritter recipe.
MB: There you go.
SU: Wow. Thanks for selling everyone on the recipe, Mark.
JS: Benign was a beautiful word choice. That was lovely.
SU: The way you described that was... I never thought about frying something batter-based as being one of the best things to start with.
JS: It tells you a story.
MB: It's spattering that people are afraid of, and setting things on fire, grease all over the place, all of that stuff. Really, frying's not hard, but I get why it's intimidating.
SU: We're going to move on to the part of the podcast that, Mark, may not be your favorite, because it is a rapid fire question round.
MB: Oh, man. I'm just warning you, I'm really bad at this. [inaudible 00:45:47]-
KB: He's really bad.
SU: I would be terrible too, to be honest.
JS: Me too. What is the best baking smell?
KB: Melting chocolate.
SU: Oh.
MB: Browning butter.
JS: Both good. Both good.
SU: Both very good.
MB: Or bread.
JS: Bread is my answer.
MB: [inaudible 00:46:05] bread is kind of great. Yeah.
JS: Yes.
SU: This is a little philosophical. Do you have a motto or words that you live by in the kitchen?
MB: I don't know. Fuck it. I don't know.
JS: Great.
SU: I love it.
JS: Great. That's it.
SU: Yep. Put it on the cover.
MB: Good enough. Sometimes I used to think we could do a cookbook called Good Enough, which is sort of the opposite of obsessive test kitchen cooking, right?
JS: Mark, I'll write it with you. I've been pitching The Indifference of Cooking.
MB: Yeah, there you go.
KB: I love that. That's such a good title.
MB: You know how MP3s are good enough? It's like the MP3 of cooking. It's like you can-
KB: MP3.
MB: You can listen to it. It sounds like the music you know it is. There's just some things missing because it's not really all there.
JS: I love that. Okay, last question. What is the best compliment you've ever received on something you've cooked or baked?
KB: I have these friends who, for the past three years, have come to stay with me and Nick on Cape Cod for a few days. This summer it was a week. And their daughter, who's seven, soon to be eight, says that I'm her favorite cook. And she says it regularly.
MB: But I will say this, people do like it when you cook for them. Even if it's not great, they like it when you cook for them.
JS: I agree.
MB: So I often sit there telling people what's wrong with the food that they're eating while they're telling me how good it is.
JS: It's like a human intrinsic trait we all have. I kind of messed up, but...
SU: Yeah. Guys, on that note, I want to say thank you so, so much for being here. We had the best time with both of you.
MB: Us too.
SU: Thank you. And before we sign off, I want to ask you guys, tell our listeners where they can find you on the internet.
MB: We'll leave that to Kate.
KB: You can look up Food with Mark Bittman wherever you get your podcast.
JS: Beautiful.
SU: Amazing.
JS: Thank you so much.
MB: Great spending the afternoon with you.
KB: Same here.
JS: That's it for this month's edition of BA Bake Club, and now is the part of the podcast where we tell you about the October Bake Club recipe.
SU: It's salt bread, and the recipe was developed by Hana Asbrink, our amazing deputy food editor. We've spoken about Hana so many times, I think. For pizza.
JS: For pizza, yes.
SU: She was our unofficial-
JS: She was our biggest fan.
SU: Yes, she was our unofficial tester of the recipe. So we're very happy to have Hana back this time with her own recipe, where she blessed us with these brilliant, beautiful, gorgeous Buxen salt rolls.
JS: They looked like little emojis.
SU: Oh, they're so cute. [inaudible 00:48:49] They really did look like emojis.
JS: Yeah.
SU: And I'm sure Hana will explain a little bit more, but salt bread essentially originated in Japan, which is called Shio pan, and then it moved on to Korea where it really blew up. And they're essentially enriched dough rolled up. Think of it as a cross between a Parker House roll and a croissant.
JS: Yeah. And it has so much butter that it fries on the bottom, so you get a really crispy bottom.
SU: Yes. It's glassy almost at the bottom.
JS: Yeah.
SU: I love it.
JS: And I don't think there's anything special you need to stock up on really.
SU: No.
JS: No.
SU: Nothing special. Your stand mixer, obviously, but that's it. Nothing really special.
JS: That's it. Yeah. Well, great.
SU: It was spectacular.
JS: Yeah. Once you bake through it, you can send us your pictures and questions, and there are so many different ways to get in touch.
SU: You can comment on the recipe on the Epicurious app, or on the Bon Appétit website. You can comment on our Substack, or you can email us at [email protected]. And if you've made it and loved it, please rate and review the recipe on our sites.
JS: Or you can tell a friend, because the more, the merrier.
SU: True. We're your hosts, Shilpa Uskokovic.
JS: And Jesse Szewczyk.
SU: This month's episode was produced by Emily Elias.
JS: James Yost is our studio engineer, and we had editing by Michele O'Brien.
SU: Research editing by Ryan Harrington and Sangita Vasikaran.
JS: This episode was mixed by Amar Lal and Macro Sound.
SU: If you like this show, leave us a rating and review, and hit that follow button so you never miss an episode.
JS: And if you're not already part of the Bake Club, you can head to bonapetit.com/bakeclub to find out all the information you need to join.
SU: Thank you for listening to BA Bake Club, we'll see you next month.