The Prime Minister saw the six liberal Naga leaders [2] on 15 – 9‑1956 and talked and listened to them for about two hours. Following is the verbatim record of the talks:
Jawaharlal Nehru: I am glad you have come here. I got your wire in which you referred to my speech in Parliament.[3] You seem to have got mixed up with what I said and what Mr Rishang Keishing said.[4] My speech was a long speech. The basic things I said were carefully considered and our policy was carefully stated in that speech. I would suggest you read it.
Jasokie: We have read that speech now. But we were misled by the headlines given in the newspapers.
JN: It is a little over nine years since India became independent. During this period we have faced many problems. We have drawn up our Constitution and solved many problems. We are hard at work to improve the living conditions of our people. Have you read our Constitution?
Jasokie: Yes.
JN: The whole or only the Sixth Schedule?
Jasokie: Mainly the Sixth Schedule which we were interested in.
JN: You should read the other main provisions of the Constitution also. We gave a lot of thought to it, but we had so many problems facing us at that time. We had to look after millions of refugees from Pakistan. Speaking for myself, I could not then give much thought to the Hill areas of North East India, although I was very much interested in them. Broadly speaking, I wanted them to have as much autonomy as possible and share with us the freedom of India, that is, freedom for all the people.
We drew up a complicated Constitution protecting the rights of everybody through the Judiciary, Parliament and other safeguards. We thought the Sixth Schedule was a step which should be worked out and then changed, if necessary. I did not give much time to it then. The Sixth Schedule applied to various areas, but the Naga National Council did not cooperate in working it. We have, therefore, had no chance to get it going or take further steps.
We met some Naga representatives during this period. I met Phizo twice or thrice and some others too. Everytime Phizo met me he talked about independence. I told him I was not prepared to discuss it as I considered it an absurd claim. The result was that we never discussed the other problems either.
It is quite possible if other matters had been discussed many problems could have been solved in a friendly and cooperative way. The situation grew worse and Phizo gave a lot of trouble. I came to the conclusion that Phizo should not be relied upon and he was out only for mischief. I said then I was prepared to meet Naga representatives but I would not meet Phizo, unless he gave up violence and the claim for independence. Then the trouble started and we were faced with this situation.
Before I say more, I should like you to tell me what your feelings are. I will say this that the violent step Phizo and others took was a foolish step and a step which no country could tolerate. India is a big country, a proud country. Our pride is that we live up to certain principles. If you have travelled in India you must have noticed a great variety of our customs, religions, languages, etc. We maintain all this variety, but, nevertheless, we all have a national unity which is based on this variety which our Constitution tells us to maintain. We have to maintain the unity and integrity of the country. It is necessary at all times and more especially now when we are anxious to advance and preserve our freedom which we have won by our struggle against the British.
During these nine years we have made considerable progress and also gained prestige in the world. Therefore, for us to go in for fighting and use our Army is against our past record and present policy. It is distasteful to us. But, if violence is used against the State, we cannot help using force to suppress violence.
Our outlook is to give people local freedom and to build up the whole country. The world today is a very complicated world. Now we have the Suez Canal trouble, for instance. In this state of the world, the first question for the country is to keep its unity and integrity. Because that unity and integrity was challenged in the Naga areas, we had to use force. Until peace and order are adequately established there, we have to use force.
I said in my speech in Parliament that we are anxious to win over our Naga people. Not only is Naga territory theirs, but the whole of India is theirs. It is their duty to build up their local area and the whole of India, preserve their customs, language, etc., within the integrity and unity of India.
Besides, it is a frontier area and we have to be particularly careful about it.
Jasokie: The loyal leaders are very much agitated that Government will meet Phizo. We are directly concerned with the Naga people and we want to know the Government’s stand. Apart from this, we want a political platform to convince our people and we want to know the Government’s policy in that regard.
JN: I will be very brief. We intend to be firm with the hostiles until peace is restored.
Satsuo Angami: We are only six Nagas here, but we represent a large body of Nagas. Those who have resorted deliberately to violence are few, hardly two and a half per cent. We have been deputed by the Naga people to represent their wishes. The villagers are facing trouble on both sides; the hostiles threaten them if they do not give food and shelter to them and the Army, not knowing who are friendly and who are hostiles, sometimes kills innocent people. Therefore, to save innocent people, we have arranged to send some youths to go with the Army and tell them who are innocent villagers.
We want to end this trouble as soon as possible. We have, therefore, to tell you certain things and ask for your advice and suggestions. The question of independence is not there, but some political status for a settlement is necessary. Those who are cooperating with the Government and the liberal group of Nagas had their differences with Phizo, even before the start of the struggle. Phizo’s group said they would not budge an inch from independence. We said independence would not lead to anywhere. But we want to know definitely from you what we can offer to the people when we go back.
Without a promise from you and a political platform it is very difficult for us to convince the people and restore peace. Phizo’s political platform is that of independence under which he is promising the people all kinds of things possible on earth. We need a good political platform to convince and win over the masses of the people. We asked the Foreign Secretary if all the Naga areas can be put in one administrative unit within the Union of India and within the framework of the Constitution.
T. N. Angami [6]: Some of our misguided people are killing our own innocent Nagas, yet we feel for them. Therefore, we would ask you to grant amnesty to those who surrender their arms and ammunition. If this amnesty is granted, we believe many armed Nagas will surrender. In the case of those who have committed heinous crimes, the law will take its course.
JN: An amnesty has been declared.[7] What more do you want? We can deal with heinous crimes in accordance with the Naga customary law, depending on the merits of each case. We do not want reprisals or punishment for punishment’s sake, but serious crimes have to be dealt with and the offenders punished. You have your own methods of punishment. We have declared an amnesty for those who surrender arms and we should like to use people’s cooperation in dealing with them. You mentioned that some of you have started going with our Army to guide them. When did this start?
Jasokie: Two months ago.
JN: We started it because we felt that the situation should be dealt with in cooperation with our Naga friends. A new General, General Thimayya, has taken overall charge of this area. We have sent him there not because he is a great General, but because he is good in seeking the cooperation of the people. There must be mutual trust. Your views may be different from mine, but we must be frank with each other and trust each other.
I was very much distressed and unhappy at some of the incidents that occurred at the hands of our Army. The saddest incident was the death of Dr Haralu and we are trying our best to punish the guilty. I want to change the whole approach to this problem. We have to deal with the hostiles firmly – they are hostile not only to Government but also hostile to the Naga people. We, therefore, want the trust and cooperation of the people and act in consultation with them. This takes time and trust does not grow suddenly. General Thimayya has been given these instructions and understands things. Therefore, our policy is:
(1) to deal firmly with those who continue their hostilities; and
(2) to cooperate with those who are not hostile and to seek their help and advice. Difficulties will arise in following this policy; but the main thing is that there should be frequent consultations between our authorities and our Naga friends so that misunderstandings can be removed. The final authority will be that of our General and we expect him to carry out our policy successfully. You mentioned that independence appeals to the people and you also mentioned a separate state. The cry of independence has, instead of bringing peace or comfort to the people, only brought them distress and trouble. A mere slogan or a cry does not mean anything. Therefore, you must remember that what you are after is not merely a slogan but the giving of a feeling and sensation to the people that they can live their lives as they want to live them and not to change their customs, unless they want to change them, to develop hospitals, schools, roads, etc., about which there can be no difference. Do you have any Community Projects or National Extension Service blocks in the Naga Hills District?
Jasokie: We have five National Extension Service blocks but no Community Project. They almost cover the whole District. They began in 1954 but Phizo’s propaganda came in the way. Since hostilities have started, they are not working.
JN: These Community Projects are meant to build up rural areas like yours, to develop their own leadership and their community cooperation. We do not mean to crowd your areas with outside officers; they are there only to train the local people. At the end of the Second Five Year Plan period, we shall cover the whole of rural India with these Projects. At the bottom we have a village worker, then the doctors, engineers and others. The whole idea is to train the people of the area. This is the real great work we are doing in India today ‑ to build up the people to produce their own leaders and not to thrust outsiders on them.
We have inherited the administrative system from British days ‑ it has some good points and some bad points. We are making it more democratic so that the people themselves could control their own affairs, through Parliament, through Community Projects and the like. The Community Project is the biggest programme in the world today. We have about 25,000 village workers at present and are training 10,000 more every year.
Why I am saying all this is because sometimes people try to capture people’s imagination by mere slogans, but that is not enough. I can understand the Naga people not wanting officers from outside. I myself spent 10 years in British jails and although I am Prime Minister today, I can well understand the dislike of the people to be administered by officers. But what did we do when we became independent? We did not dismiss all the officers because we would have no trained people left then. There were many good people among them and some bad also. Many of them have done and are doing very good work. Even some who did badly during British times are doing good work with us now. You cannot disrupt all these things suddenly; so, one has to accept things and then change them. If one upsets things suddenly, it may please some, but that would be childish. All great countries need trained people to do the work and public meetings alone cannot solve problems.
Therefore, in the whole of India, we are changing the people from inside and we are trying to remove the differences between the officers and the people which existed in British times. We have to work hard and it takes time – it may take 20 or 25 years to develop our country fully. All these five-year plans are meant to build up not only industries but the people – the people come first. The kind of people we lack most today are engineers. We cannot afford to waste trained people.
Therefore, we accepted a system which was built by the British even though we did not like it. We accepted even some British officers, but we are changing the system. My stand is that we have to build up the Naga areas. The only people who can build them up are the Nagas themselves. We can only send you experts, but we want to train Naga engineers, Naga doctors, etc. They must build themselves up not only for the Naga areas, but for the whole of India. I want you to understand and know how our minds work; as we have to work together. We must understand each other. We can then help each other.
I cannot change India by law or a decree. I am not a dictator. It takes time. For instance, there is still unemployment in India. I think we can get rid of it only by careful schemes and not by law. Even among independent countries there has to be a lot of cooperation.
(To be concluded)
Sulanthung Lotha
Ex-MLA & Former
Naga Hoho
President
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