Kazakh director Daulet Zhumabayev hopes to bring his new action film, Kesu, featuring South Korean actors, to South Korean theaters. The film was released in Kazakhstan on October 15. It follows a Kazakh taekwondo practitioner and a South Korean champion as they travel to Seoul in search of their missing mentor. The film is Zhumabayev’s second feature, following the sports drama Arlan: The Final Round.
Zhumabayev focuses on mainstream genre films and sees international collaboration as an opportunity to reach audiences beyond Kazakhstan. His debut feature became available on Amazon Prime Video, although he does not consider a streaming release equivalent to breaking into the American market.
In an interview with The Times of Central Asia, Zhumabayev discussed working with South Korean actors, the prospects for international film production, his experience studying abroad, and why Kazakhstan may find it difficult to replicate Korean cinema’s success in Hollywood.
TCA: Your new film, Kesu, features both Kazakh and South Korean actors. Did you have to change your directing approach when working with an international cast?
Daulet Zhumabayev: No, I worked with everyone the same way. I don’t really have a fully developed directing system yet. I have my own methods for trying to communicate to actors what I want to achieve. I’ve taken some things from Judith Weston’s book Directing Actors, others from the Stanislavski method, and still others I’ve come up with intuitively. I gave both groups of actors the same kind of direction, and everyone understood perfectly well what I wanted from them.
TCA: How did you build relationships between the Kazakh and Korean members of the film crew?
Zhumabayev: That’s very important. And I’m extremely grateful to our lead actor, Asylkhan Tolepov, for the way he supported his Korean co-star, Ben (Joo Woo Geon). From the very beginning, we tried to create a particular atmosphere. When the Korean actors arrived in Kazakhstan, we didn’t just put them up in a hotel and provide meals. We welcomed them as real guests. We took them to Shymbulak, treated them to beshbarmak, and introduced them to our traditions.
We wanted them to experience Kazakh hospitality and never feel like outsiders here, not even for a second. That immediately set the tone for our relationship. They could see that we treated them warmly and sincerely, that we cared not only about getting good performances from them but also about making their stay in Kazakhstan comfortable. And I think that probably motivated them to give their best on set as well.
TCA: Did you make any allowances for the foreign actors during filming?
Zhumabayev: None whatsoever. I expected complete dedication from them. They trained in the gym, learned Kazakh, and prepared for difficult scenes. We treated them as guests, but we worked as one team, with everyone having their own responsibilities.
They’re very respectful and attentive. After filming ended, they all sent me warm messages thanking me for working together. They said they’d felt comfortable working with me and had learned a lot themselves. As a director, that was very gratifying.
TCA: Were the Korean actors paid more?
Zhumabayev: I wouldn’t want to divide actors by nationality or compare their fees. I’ll just say that we didn’t invite the most famous Korean performers. If we’d decided to cast stars from popular Korean dramas with huge audiences, the budget would have been completely different. We had some money, of course, but nowhere near enough to afford Korean superstars.
TCA: Did you notice any cultural differences when communicating with the Korean actors?
Zhumabayev: Of course there were differences, and it took the Koreans some time to get used to the way we communicate. Ben, for example, is a very sensitive, delicate person. But Asylkhan and I have a slightly different way of interacting. We’re constantly teasing each other, joking around. We might walk up to someone, slap them on the shoulder, and say something in our usual rough-and-ready, guy-to-guy manner.
At first, Ben felt a little uncomfortable. He didn’t always understand that we were just joking and that it was completely good-natured. But eventually he got used to it, settled in, and communication became much easier.
TCA: Did you notice anything distinctive about the South Korean school of acting?
Zhumabayev: Before filming Kesu, I watched a lot of Korean movies. But honestly, I’m not enough of an expert on Korean cinema to analyze the characteristics of their acting tradition and offer you any observations right now.
For me, an actor’s nationality or citizenship doesn’t matter. What matters is how convincing they are in a particular role. And I was very impressed with our Korean actors, especially Jang Hae-Jun, who plays Son.
I liked him immediately. He has a very interesting appearance, a distinctive physical presence. Then he came onto the set, and in his very first scene, he gave this incredibly deep, piercing look. As a director, I was astonished. I immediately realized what a strong actor he was.
It turned out he had serious theater training. Jang Hae-Jun graduated from a very prestigious theater school in South Korea, something on the level of Juilliard in New York. Although he’s better known in Korea as a stage actor and appears in films relatively rarely, he was incredibly easy to work with. He understood my direction precisely and immediately grasped what needed to be done. I think all my actors, both Korean and Kazakh, did an excellent job in their roles.
TCA: When will Kesu be released in South Korea?
Zhumabayev: We’re going to have a proper theatrical release in South Korea, but it’s difficult to say yet how wide it will be. That depends on the distributor. We might get a wide release, or it might be more limited.
But I’ve already shown the film to representatives of the Korean film industry. We have preliminary agreements, and they like the film. It’s generating interest. In a couple of weeks, I’m planning to fly to Seoul, where distributors are waiting to watch the film and discuss the terms of its release.
TCA: What are the prospects for cooperation between Kazakhstan and South Korea in filmmaking?
Zhumabayev: I think the prospects are very good. South Korean filmmakers have already started coming to Kazakhstan quite actively. Of course, we need to distinguish between co-productions and Korean films that simply happen to be shot in Kazakhstan. Those are different things.
For example, director Ruslan Pak shot a Korean project in Kazakhstan. It was his second film made in cooperation with South Korea. But this time, the entire production was Korean; filming simply took place in Kazakhstan. Other Korean film crews have also come to Kazakhstan for various projects. These are fully foreign productions. They bring their crews and equipment and organize shoots here.
TCA: What attracts South Korean filmmakers to Kazakhstan?
Zhumabayev: First and foremost, the scenery. You can’t imagine how interesting Kazakhstan has become to foreigners, including Koreans. They had a very popular show in which a guy traveled around our country. If I’m not mistaken, it’s called I Live Alone. There were two episodes devoted to traveling around Kazakhstan, showing attractions in Almaty – Shymbulak, Kok-Tobe, the Green Bazaar – and places nearby, such as the Kolsai Lakes.
When the Korean actors arrived in Kazakhstan, they immediately started asking, “Can we go to Kolsai? Are we going to Kolsai?” They wanted to see it with their own eyes. And they knew about more than just Kolsai; they were familiar with other attractions too. Kazakhstan turned out to be a very appealing destination for them.
TCA: You studied in Switzerland and the United States. Would you like to work in Hollywood?
Zhumabayev: Yes, that’s my goal. And it’s entirely possible. I’m very inspired, for example, by two Belgian directors of Arab descent who work as a duo: Adil El Arbi and Bilall Fallah. They made Black (2015), a modern interpretation of Romeo and Juliet. But instead of medieval Verona, the story takes place in disadvantaged neighborhoods of Brussels. Instead of the feuding Montagues and Capulets, there are two street gangs, one Moroccan and one Congolese. A young man and woman from different gangs fall in love and find themselves on opposite sides of a criminal conflict.
The film attracted attention at international festivals, and the directors were subsequently invited to work in America. They started with television projects and then got the opportunity to direct major Hollywood films, including Bad Boys for Life. For me, that’s a very interesting example of how directors from Europe managed to break into Hollywood and establish themselves there.
TCA: Are you primarily interested in mainstream, commercial cinema?
Zhumabayev: Yes, I’m talking about mainstream cinema. I can’t really discuss auteur filmmaking from the perspective of someone who makes those kinds of films himself. I don’t even know whether I’d be capable of making a film like that. And to be honest, it doesn’t interest me all that much.
Of course, I watch the classics: Kurosawa, Bergman, Hitchcock, and other great directors. I have to know their films because I’m a director myself. But I don’t particularly want to immerse myself in, say, Estonian cinema of the 1960s. I’m drawn to a different kind of cinema: audience-oriented, genre-driven films that can engage a broad public.
TCA: Which directors do you feel particularly close to?
Zhumabayev: Probably David Ayer. He directed Fury with Brad Pitt and Street Kings with Keanu Reeves. I really connect with the way he handles genre, characters, and storytelling. And my all-time favorite film is Gus Van Sant’s Good Will Hunting. A wonderful movie.
TCA: Your debut film, Arlan, became available on Amazon Prime Video. Can that be considered a breakthrough into the American market?
Zhumabayev: Yes, Arlan was released on Amazon Prime Video. Other Kazakh films had appeared there before it. But I wouldn’t overestimate the significance of simply getting a film onto a streaming platform. Being on Amazon doesn’t mean you’ve conquered the American market. There’s an enormous gap between having a film available on a platform and achieving real success with audiences.
TCA: What would it take for a Kazakh film to appeal to mainstream American audiences?
Zhumabayev: I think it’s possible if you make stories about America. If we’re talking about the mainstream American market, of course. But to make a good film for Americans, you need to understand American audiences: their culture, interests, and habits. And you need to tell stories they can relate to.
TCA: So American audiences aren’t interested in Kazakh stories?
Zhumabayev: No. Just as they’re not particularly interested in French or Belgian stories, or stories from anywhere else. You have to understand how focused American audiences are on their own country.
Let me give you an example. Remember the war in Georgia in 2008? In English, Georgia is both the name of a country and the name of an American state. Now imagine an American from the state of Georgia seeing a news report: “There is a war in Georgia.” He goes outside, looks around, and says, “I go outside, there is no war outside. What the hell is going on?”
The guy doesn’t even realize they’re talking about another country!
Of course, that’s an exaggerated example, but it illustrates how difficult it is for foreign cinema to break through to mainstream American audiences.
TCA: But South Korea’s Parasite won Oscars in 2020 for both Best International Feature Film and Best Picture. Doesn’t that demonstrate that a distinctly national story can succeed on the global market?
Zhumabayev: Of course it does. But let’s look at how long it took the Korean film industry to achieve that success. When did the Korean Wave begin? Back in the 1990s. How many films have been made since then? How many wonderful directors have emerged? Park Chan-wook, Bong Joon-ho, and many others. And it wasn’t until 2020 that Parasite won the top Oscar.
In other words, that success was built on decades of development across an entire industry. You can’t just make one good film and expect Hollywood to immediately open its doors to you.
Besides, by the time Parasite triumphed, Korean pop culture had already conquered America. People were listening to BTS and watching Korean dramas.
TCA: But even after Korean culture’s success abroad, stereotypes about other countries persist. For example, is Kazakhstan still associated with Borat?
Zhumabayev: Exactly. If we’re talking about mainstream American audiences, we have to understand how difficult it is to change their perceptions of another country. How many years have we been fighting the image of Kazakhstan created by Borat?
We fought and fought, and then Sacha Baron Cohen released another promotional video for his new film, appearing as Borat again. And that’s it. America once again remembers Kazakhstan in exactly that way.
TCA: Were you personally hurt by jokes about Kazakhstan after Borat came out?
Zhumabayev: Of course I was. I happened to be in America when Borat was at the height of its popularity, and it was very unpleasant.
I remember there would come a moment in class when everyone had to introduce themselves, say their name and where they were from. And I’d already be feeling tense because I knew that as soon as I said “Kazakhstan,” someone would inevitably chuckle.
Things were different at school in Switzerland. There were about twenty of us from Kazakhstan studying there, and nobody really dared to make jokes about us. But at the American university, I was the only Kazakh student in my group. And every time, I had to go through that awkward experience.
I never hid where I came from. I never said I was from another country. I’m proud to be Kazakhstani. But even so, I’d tense up inside whenever I had to say the word “Kazakhstan.”
TCA: How old were you at the time?
Zhumabayev: About twenty. At that age, you take these things especially hard.
TCA: Did that experience change your desire to work in the U.S.?
Zhumabayev: No. Back then, I wasn’t even thinking about becoming a director. Now I believe that breaking into the American market is difficult, but possible.
Take our own Aisultan Seitov, who has directed music videos for American stars like J. Cole and 21 Savage, and now has a new project with A$AP Rocky. I think he has excellent prospects of establishing himself in Hollywood in the future, perhaps getting a television series or another major project.
TCA: Apart from the Belgian duo, are there other examples of directors who have successfully moved from their national film industries into Hollywood?
Zhumabayev: Yes, I believe that path is possible for me. But that’s not the only example.
Take Russian director Ilya Naishuller. He started out as a musician, made a famous music video, and then made his feature debut with Hardcore Henry, a film shot almost entirely from a first-person perspective.
After that, he started working in Hollywood. He directed Nobody with Bob Odenkirk – a great film, by the way. Last year, his action comedy Heads of State, starring Idris Elba and John Cena, came out. That’s already a major American project for Amazon.
There’s another example of a director who managed to break into the international market. I find his career fascinating to follow.
TCA: Kazakhstan is also hosting international productions involving major stars. Filming recently wrapped on a project involving Jackie Chan. How important is that for the local film industry?
Zhumabayev: Yes, I think that’s a major precedent. Our guys managed to reach him and negotiate a collaboration. From what I’ve heard, the negotiations went on for several years, almost three years. Can you imagine how much effort it took to establish contact and turn it into an actual project? I have enormous respect for them.
Jackie Chan is a legend! There’s a wonderful expression in English: larger than life. Someone who has long since transcended the boundaries of his own profession. And the very fact that Kazakh filmmakers managed to reach an agreement with him is already a huge step.
I hope that one day I’ll also get to make films with major stars that audiences around the world will find interesting.