[Warning: This story contains spoilers for Prime Video‘s Carrie series.]
Samantha Sloyan is aware of the distaste for some of her past characters.
Take Beverly “Bev” Keane, the zealous antagonist of Netflix’s horror miniseries Midnight Mass, who drew plenty of vitriol from viewers. Sloyan wears it as a badge of honor. “With Bev, people would be like, ‘I hated her so much. I hate you so much.’ But they had that reaction because it reminded them of something so personal, like a person,” she tells The Hollywood Reporter. “There’s an intimacy to that hate that I’ve found really meaningful. I’d love to know that people reacted strongly. Especially when it’s character-based. It’s harder to manage when they’re just like, ‘No, it’s your face, I hate your face,’ and you’re like, ‘Oh, OK.’ But when it’s about a character you played, I’m just so thrilled that they believed in that person.”
Series creator Mike Flanagan says her understanding and love for her characters is Sloyan’s gift. “Sam has this incredible gift for committing fully to the perspective of the character that she’s playing,” he tells THR. “Even if Sam’s playing what we would look at as a villain, Sam is never playing a villain. She’s so committed to their point of view that she finds an enormous amount of sympathy, even for characters who I thought were irredeemable, like Bev Keane in Midnight Mass. I was like, ‘You’re playing this just loathsome character,’ and Sam would go, ‘Oh yeah, to you. But to her, she’s the hero of the story. And I was like, ‘God, that’s brilliant.’”
Sloyan also took heat from fans in 2015, when she joined Grey’s Anatomy in Season 11 as Dr. Penelope “Penny” Blake, a doctor caught up in the death of Patrick Dempsey’s beloved Derek “McDreamy” Shepherd. She still laughs as she defends her character: “They didn’t give him the proper tests!”
Now Sloyan is taking on one of horror’s most infamous matriarchs: Margaret White in Carrie, Flanagan’s TV reimagining of Stephen King’s classic novel, which premiered Wednesday on Prime Video. Previous screen versions of Margaret include Julianne Moore, Patricia Clarkson and Piper Laurie, who earned an Oscar nomination for the 1976 film, in which Sissy Spacek starred as Carrie. Summer H. Howell portrays the titular character in the Prime Video series.
But the new series offers an “entirely different” Margaret, one who, Sloyan says, “loves her daughter.” In Flanagan‘s take, Margaret is fiercely committed to shielding Carrie from the world’s dangers and from her classmates’ cruelty, even becoming a parental advocate in their community and on social media. “It’s a declaration of war, really, for her,” Sloyan says of Margaret going public about her daughter’s bullying. “I think the only thing that would bring Margaret to that point is protecting her daughter. And then, of course, she gets charmed by the insidious nature of it all.”
Carrie is Sloyan’s latest collaboration with Flanagan, who also directed her in The Fall of the House of Usher, The Midnight Club and The Haunting of Hill House. She also has a small role in his upcoming Exorcist film. The writer-director, Sloyan says, has become a creative home. “In a particular industry where things can feel very nomadic, you’re meeting new people all the time and there’s no real security … to have somewhere that feels familiar, I count myself among the luckiest,” she says.
Flanagan says Sloyan was his only choice for Margaret. “What I love about Samantha is that she’s able to communicate strength and an aching vulnerability at the same time better than any other actor I’ve ever worked with,” he says. “Margaret is utterly formidable, but there’s this whole other story going on behind her eyes … If we’re doing Margaret White not as a monster, but as a fiercely protective, fiercely loving mother, whose tools are incorrect and whose perspective is limited, and who can look as much like she’s trapped in this situation as she is kind of the jailer, there’s no one better to play it.”
In a conversation with THR, Sloyan dissects playing Margaret, the character’s dark path, surprise reveal, her demise and her pitch for a Margaret prequel.
Given Carrie has been adapted before, we’ve seen iterations of the Margaret White character. Going into the series, who was Margaret to you, and why did you feel she was someone you wanted to take on?
When Mike [Flanagan] talked to me about Carrie, in my mind I’m thinking of the book. I think the quote is something like she’s “a snarling, foaming beast” coming after Carrie when we are introduced to her, and of course the same for the Piper Laurie portrayal. The relationship built in that piece, she views Carrie as basically a personification of sin in a lot of ways. So when Mike talked to me about it, the first images that hit my mind, I was like, “Wow, I don’t know what that’s going to be like.” And then he was like, “No. The reason to do Carrie again, because it’s been done so beautifully, is to come at it from a different way.” So he brought it all down to the foundation, and he built it back up. And the way he built Margaret was: Margaret loves her daughter. And that to me that was something entirely different.
You also see it reflected in our Carrie, this young, open, intelligent, curious woman who has been traumatized, but is almost quite aware of it. Mike talks about the original Carrie as a vibrating trauma, in a way, and that is not who we have. If we don’t have that, then it really allows her to come from a home that was clearly strict and controlled. As I think is said in episode one, it’s a cult of three. But in that is real love, and hope and trust. So it births these two different characters right from the get-go.
One of the first things we see in the show that helps us understand Margaret is the loss of her husband. Her husband was described as someone who believed in conspiracies and lived in a lot of fear but it’s worth noting that without him, Margaret seems to begin living in a completely new fear of their cult of three now being two. Can you talk about the Margaret we first meet, having lost her husband, and the internal fear she has to learn how to let go of without him?
I’m so glad you caught that, because it is very quick, and I think you, myself included, can lose track of the fact that she’s the woman who is mourning the loss of her husband. And when you say the cult of three is now two, it is that, but to stay in the same metaphor, it’s also like their bunker was just blown up. Her safe space has been invaded. You see her use her husband Ralph (Tahmoh Penikett)‘s military point of view a lot, and I think that’s what Margaret has become: she’s being faced with an attack, and now she’s the general of her little army of herself (Laughs.) That really is the behavior we see. It’s all very aggressive, claiming territory and setting boundaries and really trying to maintain control of the only thing that matters to her, which is her daughter.
Her husband’s plaid shirt is always resting on the chair and Margaret is consistently shown wearing plaid. Was that intentional?
Yes, that was Tammy Joe, our incredible wardrobe designer, and I credit her with this. She let me go home with one of the plaid shirts, I loved it so much. We wanted Margaret’s look to go from a softer, at-home look to something more militaristic and staunch, her armor against the outside world. We also see her build the suit she has, and it’s one of the things she’s picking up from her social media: modeling on the outside what you want people to experience, the image of you. I feel like Margaret is very aware of that.
After Carrie opens up to Margaret about the bullying she’s experienced, Margaret decides to take matters into her own hands and become a parental advocate. It’s probably not something people would think of Margaret becoming if they’re thinking of the original character, who is far more dangerous.
Far more!
What did you make of that direction for her, and her willingness to put herself out there? For so long she spent hiding and trying to keep the world out, but now she’s putting herself out there for all the world to see.
I think it speaks to the ferocity with which she loved her daughter. And it’s terrible, because when Carrie first comes to her, I think in episode one or two, and says, “What if I don’t want to go to school anymore?” Margaret says the worst thing a parent could: “Oh, honey, I don’t want you to either.” You’re like, “Oh God, not good!” But at that moment it really is a line in the sand. It’s a declaration of war, really, for her. Ralph had said: “You turn your enemy’s tactics against them.” So that’s the tool she chooses to take up, the weapon of social media. I think the only thing that would bring Margaret to that point is protecting her daughter. And then, of course, she gets charmed by the insidious nature of it all.
While speaking in the school auditorium, Margaret tells everyone why it’s important to stand up for decency and truth. What do you feel was her moral compass behind wanting to be this outspoken advocate? Protecting her daughter, honoring her husband, religious intent?
I think there’s genuine horror. One of my favorite things about this piece is that we get to see the reality of active shooter drills through the eyes of people who have no idea about this, in a real, fresh way, when everybody else has become desensitized to it. Carrie’s like, “Does everybody know about this?” Because it’s that horror of: If everybody knows, then why is this still happening? Why has this not been addressed? I think that horror exists in Margaret as well. You don’t see her be kind to any other kids, but I do think she has an understanding of parental love, that prerogative of taking care of your kid above all else.
When you talk about the religious side, I think she has really appropriated religion to fit her and Ralph’s situation and lifestyle, and she uses it as a controlling measure, like with the forced prayer. If we were going with interpretations, Carrie’s point of view would be far more what I believe the interpretation should be: acceptance and love and interest. Margaret has chosen a darker path of isolation and cruelty and punishment. So I wouldn’t say her moral compass isn’t so much related to God as to her ability to use the fear of judgment to her own benefit.
With all the characters in the show, but with Margaret in particular, there’s this exploration of losing control, taking control and relinquishing control. What do you think her relationship with control was like?
She’s really taken out of control. And I think that’s what leads us to their personal climax, that feeling of complete loss of it. I think her point of view of control is something she had for 15 years. One of the questions I asked myself as I was working on this character was: What was her and Ralph’s plan? Carrie is going to become a young woman regardless of what they want to do, so I think that sense of panic had already been placed. And then all of a sudden this inciting event happens, and they’re thrown, unprepared, into this world. But I think she was living in denial and in the illusion of control, because that’s all any of us really have. There’s no such thing. (Laughs.)
The series also asks: Can you love someone when you fear them so much? And how far would you go to protect them? Margaret knew Carrie’s abilities and feared it, but then it’s also revealed that she had the abilities herself. What fear do you think is ultimately shaping Margaret?
It’s so interesting. I do not have kids, so I can’t speak to this from that side of the relationship, but being on the child’s side of it, I think there’s a lot to say, and from speaking to my friends who are parents: there’s that fear of not wanting your kid to be afraid or hurt in the same ways you were. And unfortunately, sometimes when you’re working so hard to prevent them from experiencing the one thing you’re afraid of, you’re actually inflicting other problems in different ways. In much more fictional, exciting ways, that’s what’s happening here. By the end we realize her fear was so great because she truly believed it and because she experienced it. And I think in the rock-falling scene, even though she agrees to accept Ralph’s possible explanation, in that moment she decides, “Carrie will not leave this house again.“
If we even just use movies and TV, I was thinking the other day of E.T. It’s lovely, but the government wants to cut them open, figure out how it works. The world is afraid. You have pitchforks, Frankenstein-type scenarios. I think she fears for her daughter’s bodily safety if she were to be discovered. Once you understand that’s where this is coming from, that real, tight fear, you probably don’t agree with Margaret, but you could be like, “Oh, OK.”
Margaret clearly sees the powers as something that could lead Carrie down a dark path, and wants to prevent that, even though Carrie is already on it just based off the cruelty she’s experiencing from other kids.
She says, “The world is not kind to people like us.” A lot of it comes from Mike [Flanagan] having kids who are in the system and also not having the experience of how you help somebody when you have no personal understanding of what that might be like. It is a Wild West situation.
Margaret does attempt to kill Carrie. Can you talk about that moment, and the contrast of her doing it while Carrie is telling her that she forgives her?
I loved that scene. But how do you come at that scene? What helped me was her discussion with Amanda in the diner a little bit earlier, the woman who’s telling her how to kill Carrie. You see that Margaret’s horrified — that is not her plan — but what Amanda says that I think gets in her ear is: If you can’t do it, we will. At that point Margaret feels so out of control, but she’s still asking, how do I take care of a daughter who I don’t control? Because I don’t think Margaret knows how to do that. They’re so tightly linked for her. She believes it’s an act of love. At the end when we see her, she’s still out there to protect her daughter [saying], “I will make it my business. It is my life’s work to make sure my daughter’s OK,” which ultimately is her undoing.
There’s a disconnect and fear Carrie has when she’s punished by Margaret, but yet her mom is who she turns to for help. After prom, she turns to her mom again for help. Both Carrie and Margaret fear each other yet love each other. Can you talk about that journey of their relationship and how you and Summer wanted to explore it?
For me, what was so important in Carrie and Margaret’s relationship was that they loved each other, but Margaret was unable to allow her daughter to grow. From literally not allowing her to be outside of the house to every level of anything that changed her from the vision Margaret had held onto since she was probably a tiny baby, she just couldn’t do it. I find myself saying this a lot: I feel like Margaret failed Carrie in all those ways.
What’s so heartbreaking for Carrie in that moment is, and I think the story Mike built for all our characters, is that people are given moments in which they can choose one thing or the other, and our characters unfortunately are so often choosing the destructive one. Mike talks about it more simply as kindness and cruelty. Our characters are often on the precipice of: you can choose kindness, or you can choose cruelty. And Margaret is always choosing cruelty.
You mentioned earlier wondering what her and Ralph’s plan was with Carrie. What do you think was Margaret’s plan after all of this? We see her survive initially and watch Carrie run off with Emaline (Thalia Dudek), not knowing who that is. What do you think her plan was at that point?
I’m going to go hunt these people, and I’m going to get my daughter back, and then we’ll see what happens after that. She’s a real shoot-first, ask-questions-later kind of lady.
So we do see Margaret die at the end of the series. Can you confirm she really does die?
Oh yeah.
It’s worth noting that it happens while she’s still fighting that darkness of her powers she’s confronted about, her unwillingness to let it take control of her, while losing control to a stranger (Kate Siegel) who also has abilities. She doesn’t fight back and uses those last moments to pray. Can you talk about her final moments?
She’s had moments. It’s in her, but, partly because of the type of person she is, she can’t access her own powers. She’s not curious, not open and not willing to let things in. So it is her own fault that she can’t access those things. But in that moment, when we were talking about control, somebody has usurped control over her body, and her heart. How alone she is in that moment, she turns to praying again, because when the stranger asks her when she had these moments, Margaret says, “I thought it was God.” And I think there’s still, in that moment, that hope that God is real.
Carrie is not the first time you’ve teamed with Mike Flanagan. As someone who has starred in multiple of his projects that have explored different horrors, what has the horror genre allowed you to creatively explore as an actor?
Mike writes people we recognize. He writes human beings, and one of the beautiful things about the genre is to talk about the human experience. You’re pushed to the outer edges of it. In my case, Mike has written into these pieces, characters that I haven’t been given the opportunity to play, or just happened upon the chance to play, people like Bev Keane in Midnight Mass. I think characters can do this in a lot of places, but certainly in this genre, characters can take up so much space.
You’ve become such a core member of Mike’s ensembles. What can you attribute to this moment in your career, and what do you envision next for the stories you want to tell?
Truly, Kate Siegel and I have known each other since we were in our 20s, and there’s always a lot of reflection of, if we could have talked to ourselves then, to never forget. Because I personally get caught up in the concern, as an actor, of: Is anybody ever going to hire me again? That’s going to happen again. And there’s something about working with Mike and people who have truly become, believe me or don’t believe me, my family in so many ways. In a particular industry where things can feel very nomadic, like you’re meeting new people all the time and there’s no real security, especially now that series don’t run 24 episodes for 10 years like they used to, to have somewhere that feels familiar, I count myself among the luckiest.
It also expands the creativity for everybody, because we know each other. You put us in a room together and the work of creating a relationship is already done. We can pick up and hit the ground running. And then with Mike, somebody who I think is not interested in doing the same thing, it’s such a gift. People become known for playing a certain thing and then end up playing that thing often, and Mike is really like, “You played this character in this other thing, and now I see you with some things.” I feel like he’s given me opportunities for things I’ve never really proved I could do. He was just like, “Let’s try it. I hear your voice in this way, so let’s do it.”
Are there any other future roles he’s mentioned to you?
I have a small role in his Exorcist coming up. Very small, but I was really just happy to be invited to the party at all. As for Mike, to tell you the truth, I have no idea. We’re just on this whirlwind with Carrie, so I don’t know where everything else stands. He has been announced as part of quite a few other projects, and I haven’t heard. I also just never like to press him. I really trust that if he hears me in his head somewhere, that’s where I’ll end up. And he doesn’t always. Mike has an ever-expanding group of people he loves and trusts. It’s like a real theater repertory thing: you don’t always get to play. (Laughs.) I hope there [are future roles,] and I trust there will be. I don’t know what it will be. I’ve been pitching the Margaret prequel. I wouldn’t get to play her, but you never know.
I imagine you’ve come a long way from being someone many weren’t happy with after killing McDreamy.
(Laughs.) Nobody gave him the correct test!
So, are you now prepared for viewers’ possible wrath over Margaret‘s attempt to kill Carrie?
Especially with [Midnight Mass] Bev Keene, one of my favorite things was that when people feel this deeply, it’s always kind of nice to have been part of something that means something to them. I always keep that in mind. With Bev, people would be like, “I hated her so much. I hate you so much.” But they had that because it reminded them of something so personal, like a person. There’s an intimacy to that hate that I’ve found really meaningful. I’d love to know that people reacted strongly. Especially when it’s character-based. It’s harder to manage when they’re just like, “No, it’s your face, I hate your face,” and you’re like, “Oh, OK.” But when it’s about a character you played, I’m just so thrilled that they believed in that person.
Margaret is someone you want to hate, but in a weird, twisted way, you do understand her and her intentions. Is there anything you’ve taken away from playing her?
This is strange, but there was something I admired about Margaret’s willingness to act, and I think that’s something I lack in myself, that kind of belief. She had no fear of adversity in a lot of ways. She was always herself and was always standing up for what she wanted in the face of people who really disagreed with her. I think that’s an admirable trait.
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Carrie is available to stream on Prime Video.